tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post7403809381046684347..comments2024-03-18T03:10:30.572-07:00Comments on NwAvGuy: Virtual Grounds & 3 Channel AmpsNwAvGuyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-2337809890604041502012-03-28T19:06:45.133-07:002012-03-28T19:06:45.133-07:00"Just because something works well in a 2000 ..."Just because something works well in a 2000 watt professional power amp doesn’t mean it’s needed, or even desirable, in a 0.2 watt headphone amp. Sports cars don’t plow fields" HEHEHE, brilliant analogy :D However I would like to have a 100V 50A PSU and some kind of disco/PA multi kW amp everywere, and preferably I would channel it all into my HEAD-MOUNTED 2500W SPEAKERS!! :D YEAH! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-75121757872086119932011-08-11T18:53:05.309-07:002011-08-11T18:53:05.309-07:00Ughh. I am totally ripping every TLE2426 out of ev...Ughh. I am totally ripping every TLE2426 out of every amp I have made that requires two batteries. I knew that it wasn't right just reading the data sheet. Time to make some sonic inprovementsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-13629567892158303122011-07-06T20:08:29.972-07:002011-07-06T20:08:29.972-07:00I have been linking to here from head-fi whenever ...I have been linking to here from head-fi whenever I have the chance. So far I haven't seen any of those posts go into the memory hole.<br /><br />Here's hoping some of it rubs off...maverickroninnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-49401331960622230022011-06-17T09:18:09.275-07:002011-06-17T09:18:09.275-07:00Thanks mikeK, I agree completely. It's too bad...Thanks mikeK, I agree completely. It's too bad Head-Fi has banned any discussion of blind testing except in the hardly visited Science forum.NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-15220877917464137722011-06-16T22:49:38.345-07:002011-06-16T22:49:38.345-07:00I couldn't agree with you more about the blind...I couldn't agree with you more about the blind testing. And I realize that it actually takes quite a bit of effort and a lot of time to do it properly. However, there was a thread on Head-Fi where a user (milosz) did /somewhat/ controlled blind tests on amplifiers with a big clear disclaimer upfront about the limitations of the tests; and it turned out to be a HUGELY popular thread that mikeKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-38094464094302041602011-06-11T08:00:55.841-07:002011-06-11T08:00:55.841-07:00mikeK thanks for your comments. I've been want...mikeK thanks for your comments. I've been wanting to offer more subjective impressions but I think they're often only valuable under blind conditions. In the future look for some simple informal blind tests with myself and/or someone else. I also would like to conduct some more rigorous blind tests but it's hard to find willing listeners with public credibility.<br /><br />I've NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-92025344177386622882011-06-11T01:23:41.329-07:002011-06-11T01:23:41.329-07:00ReformedKoolaidHolic said...
"Nice try but GO...ReformedKoolaidHolic said...<br />"Nice try but GOOD LUCK with your naive quest. Others have tried before you to dare dispute the religious and their devout beliefs."<br /><br />This is true. I wouldn't count on changing the audiophile landscape by much. However, this is fun for those of us who are on this side of the fence. And if we happen to get a few on the other side to comemikeKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-83540064689568854412011-06-03T08:41:05.943-07:002011-06-03T08:41:05.943-07:00To Anonymous above, I've tried to make my &quo...To Anonymous above, I've tried to make my "agenda" fairly clear. Please see my first article: <a href="http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/introduction.html" rel="nofollow">Introduction</a><br /><br />I'm not trying to "attack" anything or anyone. I'm only offering mostly objective information for those interested. That includes providing measurements where none NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-68749835244703548262011-06-03T02:28:43.709-07:002011-06-03T02:28:43.709-07:00What is your agenda? Why attack the good/great sou...What is your agenda? Why attack the good/great sounding equipment, when there is a lot of shoddy equipment out there? Even if you personally don't like the 3 channel topology, it sounds good in most cases. Who cares if good/great sounding equipment doesn't test well. I'm not looking for that. I'm enjoying what I'm hearing. Your graphs would look more impressive with the truly Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-16304651239893379492011-05-26T09:24:23.853-07:002011-05-26T09:24:23.853-07:00Good article that addresses some of the very same ...Good article that addresses some of the very same points I'd been wondering about at some point.<br /><br />JFTR, the headphone amp section in the Sansa Clip/Fuze (AS3514 and related implementations, e.g. in AS3525, AS3543, some PP502x) uses a virtual ground setup. Surprised me a bit, since IIRC the old STMP35xx had a charge pump to generate a negative supply.Stephanhttp://stephan.win31.de/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-8776055175737475732011-05-18T22:02:02.918-07:002011-05-18T22:02:02.918-07:00I've also tried to answer some of the more gen...I've also tried to answer some of the more general questions in a <a href="http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/05/subjective-vs-objective-debate.html" rel="nofollow">new article</a> about subjective vs objective measurements.NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-64407249176080118862011-05-18T07:31:38.294-07:002011-05-18T07:31:38.294-07:00The main focus of this blog is to provide an alter...The main focus of this blog is to provide an alternative to typical subjective reviews performed by ear. So I would never say the E5 <i>sounds</i> better or worse than the Mini3 as that would only be to me, with my headphones, playing my music, etc. There's no shortage of those reviews. <br /><br />So instead I make very similar measurements to those <i>Stereophile</i> publishes and NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-87433436170334435312011-05-18T05:24:28.573-07:002011-05-18T05:24:28.573-07:00I honestly stop taking your blog seriously after y...I honestly stop taking your blog seriously after you claimed that the FiiO E5 is better than the Mini^3. If your ears cannot differentiate between these two amplifiers, then you have no business reviewing audio gears.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-50391600937092720322011-05-17T19:12:22.998-07:002011-05-17T19:12:22.998-07:00User "amb" (aka Ti Kan) on AMB's own...User "amb" (aka Ti Kan) on AMB's own forum June 28th, 2010 said:<br /><br />"<i>having two amplifiers drive the headphones (per channel, in balanced mode) doubles its effective output impedance</i>"<br /><br />If Mr Kan doesn't delete it, you can find his quote here:<br /><br />http://www.amb.org/forum/beta22-amplifier-f12/NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-8054891023845237452011-05-17T18:03:19.807-07:002011-05-17T18:03:19.807-07:00Thanks again for your post. Just one question: AMB...Thanks again for your post. Just one question: AMB claims that Beta22 3rd channel's output impedance is less than the ground one (by taking into account power supply caps, the post is on AMB's forum).<br /><br />What do you think of that? It is right?<br /><br />Assuming that output impedance would be better with 3 channels, could we consider that kind of designs worthwhile?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-63762861379565730792011-05-17T14:26:12.065-07:002011-05-17T14:26:12.065-07:00Indeed, your posts are appreciated. I'm sure y...Indeed, your posts are appreciated. I'm sure you will meet some resistance, as well you writing is sometimes very categorical, but DIYs like me will surely appreciate your great contributions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-12607626218352391552011-05-17T12:59:30.461-07:002011-05-17T12:59:30.461-07:00Nice try but GOOD LUCK with your naive quest. Othe...Nice try but GOOD LUCK with your naive quest. Others have tried before you to dare dispute the religious and their devout beliefs. While your argument might be more factual and pursuasive you are still far outnumbered by those who drink the magic koolaid and BELIEVE!<br /><br />About power supply noise you said "What’s left is like a drop in the ocean" and that's what objective ReformedKoolaidHolicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-57869729887366870012011-05-17T11:02:11.494-07:002011-05-17T11:02:11.494-07:00Nwavguy thanks for this great article. The 3 chann...Nwavguy thanks for this great article. The 3 channel BS has never made any sense to me and its great to see someone spell out what I have suspected all along. Don't worry too much about your critics. It's not often anyone challenges their nonsense so their reaction is understandable. I hope you'll do more articles like this one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-23192539897843662782011-05-17T09:49:40.191-07:002011-05-17T09:49:40.191-07:00NwAvGuy, Thank you for sharing your point of view ...NwAvGuy, Thank you for sharing your point of view on the virtual ground design. I enjoyed it very much. However you are going to have a tuff time convincing non technical music lovers about a shortcomings of the AMB design unless you present at least one of your own. Your design would have to measure better and make sure it sounds good too (your point is that better measurements should lead to a DeafBeefnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-24968126228684612432011-05-17T09:21:56.511-07:002011-05-17T09:21:56.511-07:00Anon, your comments are more applicable to the Min...Anon, your comments are more applicable to the Mini3 review, not this article. But here's my response:<br /><br />I'm not disputing <i>subjective</i> sound quality as that's basically impossible. If you think your Mini3 sounds great, and better than the E5, that's fine. People think sonic bricks make their DACs sound better too.<br /><br />My reviews are 95% about <i>objective</i>NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-6373599568041386122011-05-17T01:59:51.248-07:002011-05-17T01:59:51.248-07:00Quote from above: "Even into 33 ohms the Mini...Quote from above: "Even into 33 ohms the Mini3 had significant problems."<br /><br />I have a Mini3 and I use it with a 32 ohm Grado and it sounds great! I don't know what problems you are having with it but it seems like you're the only one who have this kind of experience. I also read your post in the AMB thread by the way and you can't seem to state your credentials. I Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-1969423182726961912011-05-16T08:19:14.118-07:002011-05-16T08:19:14.118-07:00Shike, yes I realize about the loads. I show imped...Shike, yes I realize about the loads. I show impedance plots in my February Impedance article. The peaks you talk about are over a fairly limited section of the audio range. I was referring to the rated impedance.<br /><br />I did some testing into 33 ohms and 330 ohms--the values used by AMB. See the start of the tech section of my Mini3 review. Even into 33 ohms the Mini3 had significant NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-2191983137182187722011-05-15T23:33:41.485-07:002011-05-15T23:33:41.485-07:00Some notes. You said:
"The more popular hig...Some notes. You said:<br /><br />"The more popular high-end models, like the Sennheiser HD5xx HD6xx and flagship HD800's, are all in the 60 - 300 ohm range."<br /><br />You do realize these aren't static loads at all right? HD6XX and HD800 definitely hit 500+ ohm loads in the bass (Head-Room measurements test impedance over 20hz-20khz). The HD800 goes over 600 ohms in Shikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-90302257495269607742011-05-15T20:07:53.265-07:002011-05-15T20:07:53.265-07:00I couldn't make heads or tails of his descript...I couldn't make heads or tails of his description either but I just assumed it was over my head. My knowledge of electronics is mostly summed up with with water pressure analogies.<br /><br />Also, the Concerto just uses a standard 1/4" TRS jack so there can only be 3 conductors.<br /><br />Maybe I'm just going to have to find a good way to do crossfeed in software at a system wide maverickroninnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-64904830108107156712011-05-15T19:29:41.873-07:002011-05-15T19:29:41.873-07:00Thanks for the links. To be honest, it's reall...Thanks for the links. To be honest, it's really not clear to me <i>what's</i> going on. He shows a diagram with scope-like signals with a common ground wire and indeed some of his text talks about a common ground signal. This implies 3 wires and a special "fabricated" ground signal. But he interchangeably talks about 4 wires as well. And with 4 wires there's no need to NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.com