tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post2508759095387394123..comments2024-03-18T03:10:30.572-07:00Comments on NwAvGuy: Headphone Impedance ExplainedNwAvGuyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-34940055064465796872012-08-28T12:59:48.101-07:002012-08-28T12:59:48.101-07:00Hey NWAVGuy I had a quick question about ohm imped...Hey NWAVGuy I had a quick question about ohm impedance because I got in a bit of a dust up with some Nuforce gear loyalist at Headfi and wanted to get your take on it.<br /><br />Some guys are asserting that output impedance doesn't matter with planar magnetic headphone and were using old datasheets from Yamaha orthos to prove it.... my thing was that that those Yamaha orthos were built well UNREFORMEDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00552756187140713771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-32073066969348073222012-05-15T17:41:07.366-07:002012-05-15T17:41:07.366-07:00Correct. Some headphones, like the HiFiMan planars...Correct. Some headphones, like the HiFiMan planars, need relatively high amounts of voltage and current making them the most challenging of all. I explain more in the <a href="http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/07/o2-design-process.html#requirements" rel="nofollow">O2 Design Requirements</a>.NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-13348791819434741722012-05-15T17:16:38.918-07:002012-05-15T17:16:38.918-07:00So... higher impedance headphones require more vol...So... higher impedance headphones require more voltage, which makes them difficult to drive from the "other" side of the equation (V = IR), so to speak?Va1z4rDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07471797615440385729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-50044459566930765432012-05-15T17:15:45.283-07:002012-05-15T17:15:45.283-07:00So.. higher impedance headphones, by nature requir...So.. higher impedance headphones, by nature require higher voltages?Va1z4rDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07471797615440385729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-14464677031860858412012-05-15T14:46:15.048-07:002012-05-15T14:46:15.048-07:00Oh, I see - yes, you were right, I thought that ul...Oh, I see - yes, you were right, I thought that ultimately the drivers were moving out of phase too, along with the measured signal.<br /><br />Sorry for the stupid questions then, and thanks for bothering to answer them. I'll do some more reading about this.Dexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-34869537967129337352012-05-15T13:13:16.504-07:002012-05-15T13:13:16.504-07:001 When the time shift is less than one cycle at th...1 When the time shift is less than one cycle at the measurement frequency it's measured in degrees. When it's greater than one cycle you have to use time (sometimes called "group delay").<br /><br />2 I don't understand what you're asking. But I think the root of the problem is you're still not interpreting phase correctly. See the next answer.<br /><br />3 The phaseNwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-43058267929735904342012-05-15T13:04:59.668-07:002012-05-15T13:04:59.668-07:00Lower impedance means more current is required, an...Lower impedance means more current is required, and for speakers, that gets expensive because of the relatively high currents involved. For headphones, current is less often a problem than voltage--especially in battery powered gear. Higher impedance often means you need a higher voltage than a lot of gear is capable of.NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-19578094708251180532012-05-13T04:37:03.792-07:002012-05-13T04:37:03.792-07:00Thanks for your answers to my questions in your HD...Thanks for your answers to my questions in your HD650 article. In retrospect it might have been wiser to post the individual questions to their corresponding articles instead of batching them all up in one place - sorry for that.<br /><br />The hint to look up electrical reactance in Wikipedia was extremely helpful, as it explains a few things and I had never heard of this phenomenon before - I Dexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-49152457477694294452012-04-30T17:07:36.053-07:002012-04-30T17:07:36.053-07:00How come with speakers a lower impedance means tha...How come with speakers a lower impedance means that they're harder to drive, but with headphones a higher impedance means that they're harder to drive? This has always bugged me.Va1z4rDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07471797615440385729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-38811472142675528622012-03-16T11:59:29.601-07:002012-03-16T11:59:29.601-07:00I could probably put it better, but what I was try...I could probably put it better, but what I was trying to explain is for a given amount of <i>power</i> low impedance headphones require lower voltage and higher current while high impedance headphones require higher voltage and lower current. So I'm not talking about holding resistance constant as you suggest, but power. In that circumstance voltage and current are inversely proportional. ForNwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-74712909960434508322012-03-16T11:27:25.359-07:002012-03-16T11:27:25.359-07:00Hi NwAvGuy,
I was going through your article o...Hi NwAvGuy,<br /> I was going through your article once again as I keep re-visiting your blog and I read through the <br />Tech Section: Voltage and Current. While I think the analogy is correct, the paragraph makes things sound like Voltage and Current are inversely proportional (Quote: "The two are typically inversely related. High pressure usually means low flow and visa versa. The Jokernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-18883322050163582112012-03-09T08:09:53.233-08:002012-03-09T08:09:53.233-08:00There's no single answer to your question. Ide...There's no single answer to your question. Ideally if you're undecided between any two headphones, even different versions of the DT880, you need to listen to both and decide for yourself. Even Beyer struggles to answer the very question you asked.<br /><br />As a guideline, if the same headphone is available in multiple impedance the highest impedance is, at least in theory, capable of NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-18352022287958395132012-03-08T22:52:01.624-08:002012-03-08T22:52:01.624-08:00Hello NwAvGuy,
I'm still wondering the differe...Hello NwAvGuy,<br />I'm still wondering the differences between impedances. Beyerdynamic DT 880 PRO seems to have excellent frequency response according to headroom, but it doesn't show much difference between the 250 ohm and 600 ohm model. <br /><br />Is there something happening that can't be seen in the frequency response? <br /><br />If we have more than enough of power to drive kmhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-90626631764130703022012-02-02T16:35:19.890-08:002012-02-02T16:35:19.890-08:00I'm guessing you like bloated bass with a freq...I'm guessing you like bloated bass with a frequency response peak around the resonance of the headphone drivers (usually around 100 hz). One man's boom is another man's bass. It's all subjective. Personally, I like accuracy. And that's best achieved with a near-zero ohm output impedance. I also like low distortion and tight bass damping. See:<br /><br /><a href="http://NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-46612786720875577572012-02-02T04:04:53.809-08:002012-02-02T04:04:53.809-08:00With most cans -- except, perhaps ES SM3 IEMs -- I...With most cans -- except, perhaps ES SM3 IEMs -- I get best subjective performance via the 120-ohm out of my Meier amp. Now, Grado and Beyer suggest an above-zero-Z output jack, IIRC, but even my low-Z Senn IE-8s and AKG-701s sound (SLIGHTLY) better at the 120-ohm O/P. One reasons may be that the FULL range of the volume pot is utilized -- IIRC, vol pots get "more accurate/linear" near hm1313https://www.blogger.com/profile/05678111381013525702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-68583953871265665572012-01-24T05:36:20.284-08:002012-01-24T05:36:20.284-08:00I think the D2000 strikes a nice balance and manag...I think the D2000 strikes a nice balance and manages to sound "lively" without going too far. My biggest issue is comfort for long term wear but some find them comfortable enough.<br /><br />It's too bad more companies don't publish the output impedance of their gear. If they don't, and you can't find a reliable review where it was properly measured, it's very much NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-73906239632755515592012-01-23T21:25:04.044-08:002012-01-23T21:25:04.044-08:00After reading several of your articles, it almost ...After reading several of your articles, it almost sounds as if the Denon AH-D2000s would sound really good to me. That is, of course, if I have a good match to drive them. I have looked at several DAC/headphone amp specs, and have yet to see a good impedance spec. It almost seems like gambling to pick a good match to drive lower-impedance headphones.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-69628948884091935692012-01-23T20:16:56.397-08:002012-01-23T20:16:56.397-08:00I like your More Power article. I'm used to sp...I like your More Power article. I'm used to speakers, which to me have a pretty predictable volume output vs power, and the article brought different factors to light. Thanks again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-11167103437344404632012-01-23T19:52:15.824-08:002012-01-23T19:52:15.824-08:00Thanks. The one thing that has had me shy away fro...Thanks. The one thing that has had me shy away from the Beyers is that I have read a lot of complaints about the right channel going out. I'll check out your article.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-89060000560711633572012-01-22T19:09:00.500-08:002012-01-22T19:09:00.500-08:00The Pro 4AA's are ancient but seal really tigh...The Pro 4AA's are ancient but seal really tightly to the head (and least if the ear cushions haven't gone totally flat) which gives them a different sort of bass that many like. More modern headphones that weigh under 18 pounds, and don't feel like a head vice, rest more lightly on the ears. The upside is massively greater comfort but the downside is you lose that tight seal and the NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-4415839450311250712012-01-22T18:28:49.909-08:002012-01-22T18:28:49.909-08:00I have a question, if you don't mind. I curren...I have a question, if you don't mind. I currently mostly listen to a pair of Koss Pro 4AAs, which are heavy and hot, but to me sound very good, clear from deep bass to harmonics. They are 250 ohms impedance, and get plenty loud enough for me through my sound output on my PC. I also have a pair of Bose headphones and Sennheiser HD238s, which both get louder than I ever listen to, and both Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-18550796800655447732012-01-22T11:09:58.836-08:002012-01-22T11:09:58.836-08:00@Anon, There was an interesting discussion on diyA...@Anon, There was an interesting discussion on diyAudio about headphones under 16 ohms and there are several. First of all, it makes an even stronger argument for having a "near zero" output impedance as anything much above that is likely to have a significant impact on such headphones. Second, depending on their sensitivity, some headphones require an amp/source with substantial currentNwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-82936511771115240412012-01-22T10:29:52.984-08:002012-01-22T10:29:52.984-08:00New sony XBA-4iP has 8 Ohm impedance
so what ar...New sony XBA-4iP has 8 Ohm impedance<br /> so what are we doing now sherif ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-61052975536264806512011-12-16T11:14:24.383-08:002011-12-16T11:14:24.383-08:00@Anon, to each their own. There's no shortage ...@Anon, to each their own. There's no shortage of subjective opinions on headphone audio. Sites like Headfonia are almost entirely based on pure subjectivism. It's no different than a food critic saying he loves a particular restaurant's boiled liver and anchovies. Just because he likes the dish, doesn't mean you will.<br /><br />Nearly all such comments are only applicable to the NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-66611925562752364552011-12-16T10:50:24.549-08:002011-12-16T10:50:24.549-08:00Thanks for the response.
There are measurements ...Thanks for the response. <br /><br />There are measurements done with the Arrow (1G?) by dfkt at ABI. Perhaps he knows more about the design? There was also a manual detailing changes between the 1G-3G but I can't find it right now. I can't find any specs for the Arrow either other than the fact that it uses an Analog AD8397 op amp.<br /><br />http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/index.php?dir=Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com