tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post2914715312004384414..comments2024-03-18T03:10:30.572-07:00Comments on NwAvGuy: AMB Mini3 DIY Headphone AmpNwAvGuyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-17218533336116036482012-04-05T11:34:23.819-07:002012-04-05T11:34:23.819-07:00For what it's worth I wrote this review before...For what it's worth I wrote this review before being banned from either AMB or Head-Fi. So that argument isn't valid. And, to be blunt, measurements don't lie. The Mini-3 has some serious design flaws that can effect how it sounds. <br /><br />You say the Mini-3 can be built for $60, but just the front and back panels, case and bare PC board with no parts cost more than $60. When I NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-78543597103841601382012-03-24T11:35:35.677-07:002012-03-24T11:35:35.677-07:00Some phones, including some Samsungs, have relativ...Some phones, including some Samsungs, have relatively poor headphone outputs so there could be some benefit to the Cmoy. Creative makes several different X-Fi USB DACs. I've only tested the X-Fi Go Pro (see my review). I've heard mixed things about all of them.<br /><br />To answer your other (unpublished) questions, I'm not familiar with all of the JDS designs, but the ones I've NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-70260320739960592252012-03-24T09:03:01.975-07:002012-03-24T09:03:01.975-07:00thank you for reply. I use a phone a galaxy s infu...thank you for reply. I use a phone a galaxy s infuse with voodoo sound. Not sure what the output impedance is, but compared to the cmoybb it definitely rolls of the highs with the triplefi & maybe less bass, so I assume that makes the output impedance more on the phone. Also just use notebook as a source again not sure of output impedance. Would the notebook be ok if output impedance is low? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-56119170047942827462012-03-24T07:46:10.971-07:002012-03-24T07:46:10.971-07:00If an amp isn't needed for more power or a low...If an amp isn't needed for more power or a lower output impedance, adding one can't help and is more likely to make things worse. All amps add some level of noise and distortion. Some have high output impedance, limited current capability, and other problems.<br /><br />You don't say what your source is so I can't comment if you would be better off without the Cmoy. Both of your NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-4945839495734824472012-03-24T06:03:42.562-07:002012-03-24T06:03:42.562-07:00Hi interested to know how "A Cmoy can be wors...Hi interested to know how "A Cmoy can be worse than no amp at all in many applications"? <br /><br />I'm currently using a cmoybb by JDS Labs with higher current option (a second TLE2426 rail splitter). It was designed with headphone impedance between 18 and 50 ohms in mind. Currently using triplefi (32 ohms) and AH-D5000 (25 ohms) just purchased & in the mail. Should I have anyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-69988461739283934982012-02-17T11:38:38.883-08:002012-02-17T11:38:38.883-08:00Very nice article. I definetly love all the inform...Very nice article. I definetly love all the information providing here. About those Anonymous, I can't stop thinking they are just Ti Kan himself or his minor trying to flame you. I did trying to measure the high performance mini^3 (I got it from MisterX) in my friend audio lab. The measure result is very similar to what you have here.(~2% difference)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-45663330881479687812011-11-12T11:31:21.766-08:002011-11-12T11:31:21.766-08:00@Kayden, Thanks for the comments. It took a while,...@Kayden, Thanks for the comments. It took a while, but lots of people seem to be losing interest in AMB designs. I've had lots of private messages regarding the issue and it's become apparent Ti Kan has been intentionally publishing misleading measurements for years for most or even all of his designs. That's not fair to all those people who spent a lot of time and money based on NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-71947362242013592502011-11-12T09:58:11.533-08:002011-11-12T09:58:11.533-08:00I recently came across your blog and it is simply ...I recently came across your blog and it is simply amazing! None of the mambo jambo that is so prevalent among head-phile forums, just plain scientific proof.<br /><br />I used to admire Ti Kan because he seemed like a honest, no nonsense kind of guy. However, I was never satisfied with the sound I got out of the Mini3 I built. In audiophile terms (which I loathe), the sound is very coloured, in aKayden Chanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04173112498514543216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-56839187468061380172011-11-10T12:04:00.280-08:002011-11-10T12:04:00.280-08:00I've built the Mini3 and the CMOY BB. I liked...I've built the Mini3 and the CMOY BB. I liked the CMOY, and had high hopes for the Mini3. To be honest, it turned out to be rather dissappointing, after spending a lot more money. The case and engraved panels are nice, though. <br /><br />The whole thing ends up being more trouble than it's worth, and it's sat in my closet unused.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-22747439928262192682011-10-13T23:18:08.846-07:002011-10-13T23:18:08.846-07:00"I have built several AMB products, including..."I have built several AMB products, including the Mini3, and they all sound fine to me. "<br /><br />Sounding fine is subjective. Compared to few other portable amps (Pimeta, Corda Move...)I would rate the Mini3 at the bottom of the heap... I never understood why anyone would pay so much money for that amp, let alone spend time building one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-78513644536723079472011-09-17T16:46:23.469-07:002011-09-17T16:46:23.469-07:00Anon, what's my "hidden agenda"? Are...Anon, what's my "hidden agenda"? Are you talking about:<br /><br />- Helping DIYers, and those shopping for headphone gear, make more informed choices.<br /><br />- Investing hundreds of hours of my time and several hundred dollars of my own money to offer a <a href="http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/08/o2-summary.html" rel="nofollow">great performing inexpensive headphone amp</a> NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-5949754176204515322011-09-17T16:22:17.921-07:002011-09-17T16:22:17.921-07:00I have built several AMB products, including the M...I have built several AMB products, including the Mini3, and they all sound fine to me. Ti Kan said you are poisoning DIY audio and I have to agree. Why go after AMB and why test the Mini3 into loads and levels it was never designed for? Oh yeah, to make your own amp look better! As Ti said its now clear what your real agenda is. You probably were planning the O2 before you even reviewed the Mini3anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-89649418580569664812011-07-10T12:25:55.068-07:002011-07-10T12:25:55.068-07:00The issue isn't Ti Kan being mislead by RMAA. ...The issue isn't Ti Kan being mislead by RMAA. It's that someone representing himself as an expert in audio design, offering his designs to thousands of potential DIY builders, and selling components, should know what specs are realistic and what's a reasonable result from RMAA. <br /><br />In my opinion, Ti either doesn't understand the engineering required to design and measure aNwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-25915686923344897612011-07-09T11:34:05.591-07:002011-07-09T11:34:05.591-07:00So, let me get this straight:
The Mini^3 is produ...So, let me get this straight:<br /><br />The Mini^3 is producing almost near best case measurements into 150 ohms, but Ti's RMAA measurements posted are over spec'd. So, performance wise 30-300 ohm may still be perfectly acceptable, especially off the wallwart? Effectively Ti made a large mistake sticking to RMAA as his specifications?<br /><br />Quick question, what are the best case Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-50150148030603118572011-07-09T11:05:03.921-07:002011-07-09T11:05:03.921-07:00I've shown where Ti Kan's 88 dB spec is li...I've shown where Ti Kan's 88 dB spec is literally impossible. Even NASA couldn't pull off 1.3 milliohms. Measurements are not required to show his numbers are seriously wrong. They're also not required to blow your 80 dB number out of the water. Into 150 ohms at 1 volt the math is:<br /><br />AntiLog(-80/20) = 0.00001 volts (100 uV)<br /><br />150/(1/0.000005 - 1) = 0.015 ohms (15NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-16538013439798732662011-07-09T02:43:24.666-07:002011-07-09T02:43:24.666-07:00Please read this fully, as I want to make sure I&#...Please read this fully, as I want to make sure I've made no mistakes and relay my thoughts entirely.<br /><br />"As for RMAA, it's crucial the output be loaded with the correct impedance (150 ohms) for the test. How did you load your Mini3 for testing? Using a typical "Y" cable will degrade the crosstalk well below 80 dB all by itself. I use a custom test harness."<br Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-79426404014583530302011-07-08T13:33:54.895-07:002011-07-08T13:33:54.895-07:00This blog limits comments to 4096 characters and I...This blog limits comments to 4096 characters and I could not include a final point to the crosstalk explanation above. The Mini3 is at a further disadvantage for crosstalk (and shared distortion) because of its ground scheme.<br /><br />In a conventional 2 channel amp with a star ground, some of the impedances in the ground system (such as the internal impedance of the power supply filter NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-8991350310972687072011-07-08T12:48:24.402-07:002011-07-08T12:48:24.402-07:00I didn't publish your last message as it was a...I didn't publish your last message as it was almost entirely another lengthy re-hash of the same points already discussed ad nauseum. I can't edit posts via Google's Blogger so it's all or nothing.<br /><br />The 60 dB crosstalk I measured is consistent with other devices and what could be expected. If the ground amp, PC board traces, and output jack have a combined total NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-30133136115100314902011-07-08T02:10:41.049-07:002011-07-08T02:10:41.049-07:00So someone provides numbers that directly contradi...So someone provides numbers that directly contradict yours (a crosstalk of -80dB RMAA) so you refuse to:<br /><br />1) Publish their findings because they contradict yours.<br /><br />2) Confirm/disprove their findings.<br /><br />I'm about 99% certain that either your findings were wrong, your amp is shot, or there's such a critical flaw in RMAA it might as well be tossed out all Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-39585277392475908232011-07-07T10:20:22.075-07:002011-07-07T10:20:22.075-07:00There are 31 comments for this article and 36 more...There are 31 comments for this article and 36 more in the follow up <a href="http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/05/virtual-grounds-3-channel-amps.html" rel="nofollow">3 Channel Article</a>. Most of the negative comments are anonymous but seem to be the same person or two beating the same dead horse. Similar comments just keep coming in.<br /><br />It's like an average person arguing the earth NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-3368170197583832292011-07-01T17:54:48.965-07:002011-07-01T17:54:48.965-07:00“Ti Kan never tested a 15 ohm load -- you're s...<i>“Ti Kan never tested a 15 ohm load -- you're saying he said low impedance loads were okay and therefore it's a perfect test subject. Then, complain when the measurements aren't astounding (even though at the levels you pushed them to would deafen anyone).”</i> and <i>”Where on AMB's site did he give specs for 16ohm loads? Oh right -- nowhere.”</i><br /><br />Ti Kan, on his own NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-81400570244036073812011-07-01T17:05:38.892-07:002011-07-01T17:05:38.892-07:00"Please tell me where I've been dishonest..."Please tell me where I've been dishonest or not factual?"<br /><br />Ti Kan never tested a 15 ohm load -- you're saying he said low impedance loads were okay and therefore it's a perfect test subject. Then, complain when the measurements aren't astounding (even though at the levels you pushed them to would deafen anyone).<br /><br />Please explain how that isn't Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-24201009961870575532011-06-22T18:42:28.699-07:002011-06-22T18:42:28.699-07:00It seems that Anonymous on June 6 has a bone to gr...It seems that Anonymous on June 6 has a bone to grind with the NwAvGuy. I'm not a hardcore objectivist, all I care about is sound that I like. <br /><br />Having said that, I won't buy a headphone amp that has high distortion and picks up noise (EMI) easily. I usually run my amp next to my laptop so it matters. <br /><br />LOL normal listening levels with never take me to 300mW. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-53697310633982509232011-06-19T10:37:14.470-07:002011-06-19T10:37:14.470-07:00Let's take the above points one at a time:
&q...Let's take the above points one at a time:<br /><br /><i>"I wouldn't exactly call you honest or forthcoming either."</i><br /><br />Please tell me where I've been dishonest or not factual? I've presented the measurements, the science, the theory, provided references, etc. And, in response, Ti Kan, and others, have presented weak hand waving sorts of arguments that go NwAvGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309644608738074125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6890046273025265768.post-69011655825042404822011-06-19T01:53:41.494-07:002011-06-19T01:53:41.494-07:00"First of all, the 300 mW issue is just one o..."First of all, the 300 mW issue is just one of at least a half dozen areas where AMB has published misleading or just plain wrong information."<br /><br />I wouldn't exactly call you honest or forthcoming either. You specifically tested a load the Mini^3 was never meant for, haven't retained consistency in all tests (see open pot debate for crosstalk), and have mangled many Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com